Clipse was formed in 1994 by two brothers: Gene Thornton Jr, aka Malice, and his younger brother Terrence Thornton, aka Pusha T. FFrom the beginning, they’ve worked with producer Pharrell Williams, originally as part of the acclaimed production duo, The Neptunes. But there was a 16-year gap between their third album, which came out in 2009, and their most recent album, Let God Sort Em Out, which came out in July 2025. This November, they were nominated for 5 Grammys, including Album of the Year. They were also nominated for Best Rap Song for “The Birds Don’t Sing.” It’s a song that they made after the death of both of their parents in the span of just a few months. For this episode, I asked Pusha T, Malice, and Pharrell about the making of that song, which also features contributions from John Legend and Stevie Wonder.

You can buy or stream “The Birds Don’t Sing” here.

Illustration by Carlos Lerma.

For a transcript of this episode, click here.

footnotes:
“The birds don’t sing, they screech in pain.” – Werner Herzog

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On September 5, 1973, the first and only Buckingham Nicks album was released. It wasn’t a huge hit, but it was how the world was first introduced to the music of Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, before they went on to become members of Fleetwood Mac. Their time together in Fleetwood Mac led to some of the best-selling, most critically acclaimed, and most influential albums of all time. Their individual talents, their musical chemistry together, and the ups and downs of their romantic relationship all eventually became legendary.

And yet, despite all that, the Buckingham Nicks album went out of print not long after it came out. For over 50 years, it wasn’t available, until it finally got re-mastered and re-released in September 2025. So for this episode, I spoke to both Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham about the making of one of the songs from that album, called “Frozen Love.” It’s the only song on the album where they’re credited as co-writers, and it’s the song that led Mick Fleetwood to invite Lindsey Buckingham to join Fleetwood Mac. But Lindsey would only join if Stevie could, too, and that’s how that story began. So this episode is about a beginning and an ending. It’s the story of how Stevie and Lindsey first met, and how they made “Frozen Love,” and how that song really led to the end of their band.

I also want to mention that not only was Buckingham Nicks out of print for all those decades, no one has heard the isolated tracks that you’re about to hear. To make this episode, there was an epic search for the original master tape from Sound City, the studio where they recorded the album with producer Keith Olsen. It took months, but the tape was finally tracked down and digitized, and it feels very special to be able to present this for the first time here, along with the memories and stories from Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks.

You can buy or stream the remastered album here, and you can buy or stream “Frozen Love” here.

Illustration by Carlos Lerma.

For a transcript of this episode, click here.

footnotes:
Gary Hodges – drums
Buckingham Nicks (album)
“California Dreamin” – The Mamas & The Papas
Fritz – members Javier Pacheco (songwriting) and Bob Aguirre (drums)
Chicago, Fillmore West, and Jimi Hendrix
James Taylor and Joni Mitchell
Wuthering Heights and Great Expectations
Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin, and “Stairway to Heaven”
Joe Gottfried – owner of Sound City Studios

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“Take On Me” by A-ha is an iconic hit of the 1980s. It came out in October 1985 with an equally iconic music video that helped define the age of MTV. It hit #1 in the US and in countries all over the world. And it’s still massively popular today. It currently has over two and a half billion streams on Spotify. So, with all of that, it’s easy to imagine that this was all inevitable. But actually, the song took so many steps and missteps before it became the hit that everybody knows. I talked to Paul Waaktaar-Savoy from A-ha, who wrote the original bones of the song back when he was a teenager in Norway, years before it came out. The song actually came out and flopped TWICE in the UK, before it found a foothold in the US. So for this episode, Paul took me through the whole history of the song, and all the different versions that existed. And he told me how he and his bandmates, Magne Furuholmen and Morten Harket, pushed and pushed and persevered. “Take On Me” was their first single as a band, and it made them the most successful Norwegian pop group of all time.

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You can buy or stream “Take On Me” here.

Illustration by Carlos Lerma.

For a transcript of this episode, click here.

footnotes:
“Lesson One” – first demo version of “Take On Me”
Alan Tarney – producer & backing vocals
Gerry Kitchingham – mixer
Steve Barron – music video director
Bridges
“Aladdin Sane” by David Bowie
Joe Cocker
Melody Maker and Music Express magazines
John Ratcliff, Terry Slater, Andrew Wickham, Tony Mansfield, and Jeff Ayeroff
Fairlight CMI
PPG Wave synthesizer
Yamaha DX7 synthesizer
“Commuter” – film

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