Tears for Fears is a duo formed in 1981 in Bath, England by Roland Orzabal and Curt Smith. They’ve sold over 30 million albums, starting with their first, The Hurting, which went to number one in the UK. But it was their second album, Songs from the Big Chair, that made them international stars. It came out in 1985, and had huge singles like “Shout” and “Head Over Heels.” But their biggest hit is “Everybody Wants to Rule The World.” It won Best Single at the BRIT Awards in 1986, and it’s been streamed over 2 billion times. So I talked to the two of them about how they, along with their producer Chris Hughes and keyboard player Ian Stanley, made a song that would help define the sound of the 80s.

You can buy or stream “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” here.

Illustration by Carlos Lerma.

For a transcript of this episode, click here.

footnotes:
Neil Taylor – guitar solo
Jimmy Page
“Then Came the Last Days of May” by Blue Öyster Cult
Peter Gabriel
Culture Club
“The Way You Are”
“Mothers Talk”
“Waterfront” by Simple Minds
Cabasa
LinnDrum
“Throw Away the Key” by Linx
David Bates
Phonogram Inc.
“The Primal Scream” by Arthur Janov
Union Studios in Munich
Massey Hall

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Lizzo is a Grammy- and Emmy-winning singer, rapper, songwriter, and actress. She’s been putting out music since 2013, and her last two albums both went platinum. Her fifth album, Love In Real Life, comes out this summer. For this episode, I talked to Lizzo, as well as her longtime collaborator, Grammy-winning producer Ricky Reed, about the making of one of her new songs, “Still Bad.” It wasn’t a straightforward process at all, and coming up, you’ll hear a few of the many, many demos they made on their way to the final song.

You can buy or stream “Still Bad” here.

Illustration by Carlos Lerma.

For a transcript of this episode, click here.

footnotes:
Blake Slatkin – co-writer and co-producer
Sam Harris – co-writer
Cheche Alara – piano
Victor Indrizzo – drums
Britney Spears
Big Grrrl Small World
Aretha Franklin
Franz Ferdinand (band)
Lizzo is set to play Sister Rosetta Tharpe in the upcoming biopic

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Jake Lenderman plays and records under the name MJ Lenderman. He put out his first album in 2019. In addition to his solo work, he’s been a member of the band Wednesday, and he’s also featured on the Waxahatchee hit song “Right Back to It.” In September 2024, the fourth MJ Lenderman album came out. It’s called Manning Fireworks. The New Yorker named it the best album of the year, and Stereogum, Rolling Stone and Pitchfork all put it in their top ten. For this episode, I talked to Jake about one of the songs from that album, called “You Don’t Know the Shape I’m In.” The song itself took shape in a few different ways. Coming up, you’ll hear the way the song started as a demo, and then how that got fleshed out, and then how it got rebuilt, and then how Jake completely reimagined the whole thing.

You can buy or stream “You Don’t Know The Shape I’m In” here.

Illustration by Carlos Lerma.

For a transcript of this episode, click here.

footnotes:
Karly Hartzman – vocals
Alex Farrar – engineer and co-producer
Landon George – upright bass
Colin Miller – slide banjo
Shane McCord – clarinet
Patterning app
The Hulk
Boat Songs
Marshall half stack
“The Shape I’m In” – The Band
“You Don’t Know The Shape I’m In” – version featured on Through The Soil II

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